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Keith Dawson

US House Blocks Enforcement of Energy Standards, Again

Keith Dawson
Akasha
Akasha
7/20/2013 11:22:15 AM
User Rank
Photon
Re: Education is still needed
I think its very important to have adaptabilty with the changing technology. Perhaps, we can not take too long to switch over to more energy efficicient choices and incorporate them in our daily lives. with the passage of time, the energy crisis would start to haunt us one day. LED lighting is surely an efficient way and much more preferred choice. 

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kdawson
kdawson
7/17/2013 9:55:09 AM
User Rank
Editor
Re: Education is still needed
Education is still needed

That's the key, right there. We're trying to help with that problem. Mainstream media is running more articles all the time trying to explain this strange new lighting world to the average consumer. Sometimes they do a better job than others.

For example, last spring David Pogue reviewed some replacement LED bulbs in his NY Times column — he has a massive following — and completely missed one of the three elements we absolutely need to educate about. He got lumens and he got color temperature (CCT); but he missed color rendering index (CRI). A reader had to point it out in the comments.

So we have a ways to go.

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Dennis McCarthy
Dennis McCarthy
7/16/2013 9:56:28 PM
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Education is still needed
Blaine

in a rare show of succinctness- the role of the HVAC is to provide conditioned air-and the role of lighting products is to provide illumination-

while you can't say the heat from incandescents is not a "thing"-unless your sofa is bolted to the ceiling the heat from those sources is doing virtually nothing along the lines of a practical heat source. - from my energy auditing mentors' data bank.Sage advice...

I never questioned the logic, I embraced it -

it puts a great notion in my head to do a blog with thermal images of various lights - but that will require me getting some Cfls and incands from one of my neighbours or friends  - but Br lamps in non IC cans will make for a great teachable moment replete with photos.

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eafpres
eafpres
7/16/2013 8:46:15 PM
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Education is still needed
@Dennis--"and don't minimize the kWs that are necessary to counter acting the heat from those tung burners"

In the winter it is the opposite.  I'm not advocating not changing, but in some ares more is spent on heating than cooling (a lot of areas, actually) so I think the argument about energy savings due to lower heat load may not be true as often as stated.

In addition, keeping in mind I'm the guy with the 1998 4Runner with 306,000 miles and plan another 100k, that there is an energy cost and thus a carbon footprint to manufacture stuff, including incandescent bulbs.  If you have a calcuation of the complete cycle from working incandescent to replacement LED that shows how long the incandescent would have to live to be signficantly worse on energy, then please share it.  I'm generally opposed to the disposable mentality that says chuck all the old (still working) stuff and get the new, even if it is energy efficient.  FYI, we have had this same discussion about electric vehicles over on Planet Analog and I pointed out that even with incentives to swap a perflectly working car for an EV has a negative NPV today.  The reason is the residual value of the working gas car and the cost and financing of the new EV.  The energy savings end up being a small factor.

If we could find a way to turn all incandecents into heaters for those that need heat, I would send all mine in.  What I did was swap out all the high use bulbs for CFLs, kept the old ones for spares for low use ones.  I have both a surplus of used incandescents and a surplus of spare CFLs, becuase I chose wisely and 5 years later I have replaced a very few bulbs.  So even my pre-emptive strategy is imperfect if all those unused bulbs go to waste.

 

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Dennis McCarthy
Dennis McCarthy
7/16/2013 7:31:07 PM
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Education is still needed
MMB-

 

 The headlight gripe is one that I've heard before - folks seem to give them thumbs down in a range of cases , and for a range of demographics - I know

I didn't want them.

On the domestic home front - I mention the fact that my own home has been all LED lit since 2006 frequently - the value is really apparent on hot days like this-

my typical kW usage is 10 kWs - an extreme usage day like this  a paltry 12 kWs(yes my AC is on - but my neighboors kw use is TWICE that- they don't use SSL at all) oh well - I try and convince folks (horse meet water)at least 1 got it  So yeah do yourself a favor get the whole house converted ASAP and watch the kWs use go way down, and don't minimize the kWs that are necessary to counter acting the heat from those tung burners !!

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Measurementblues
Measurementblues
7/16/2013 7:15:56 PM
User Rank
LED
Re: Education is still needed
"now please, go and toss the old BR lamps and put the SSL in already"

I should have bought two more because I need six for the kitchen, the lights ate are on the most. Actually, there are 7, one for the kitchen sink that's' already SSL.

I also have three LED BR30s here in the home office. Started with incandescents, then went to these $1.25 CFLs that take 2-3 minutes to light. They really are OK because these office lights are on for hours at a time. You would naver want to use then when you need instant on.

I should probably start by replacing the four BR30's in the living room wit hthe four LEDs in the packages.

When the car ceiling light failed, I bought an LED to replace it. It's not nearly bright enough and my wife is on my case to replace it with what we had before.

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Dennis McCarthy
Dennis McCarthy
7/16/2013 6:32:13 PM
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Education is still needed
MMB-

 

Let me step in as I'm apt to do to educate you on some of the elements

- 1- the use of a Tungsten light source is illogical when compared to the use of SSL. So to say that you have a better product waiting in the wings - and waiting to deploy them - Spocks head would be spinning at 2000 Rpm- the rationale escapes me

-2-  if "intervention" is a reference to the 179D deduction and the subset that allows for a tax deduction predicated on improved lighting power density ratios( which isn't bad in theory - but the lighting audit must be done by a qualified individuals who must meet prerequiste paperwork based on facts) - even then - it's going away in the near future - well, we're both of like minds cheering on the end of the incentives Hurray for products that stand on their own merits ...but other seem to like 'em.

And the reason why you still see so many standard hardware  stores that haven't yet switched over was a strategic in nature( well  & statis)- take ACE hardware the reason that C Critendon (ACE hq) held off in declaring a fave for the corp+ not assign products to their preferred vendors status - unknown but did   that stalling to choose a LED hurt or help them ?I say It helped them-

Some considerations: the late comers had a certain smart battle vantage point that Home Depot did not get or want ( Ace also avoided the image woes of having a dirth of LED experts ( sales folks) to answer consumers questions nor did Ace ever have LEDs ware recalled (*) HD/Lowes had to deal with those concerns as the first to the beach types - that real estate was initially problematic But now the small chains are running out of incandescent wares and will have to become adept at selling contemporary lighting wares or have a much lower portion of the lamp sales pie( they will get it eventually)

So again the fact that the example of a chain coming in  late to the SSL selling game has more factors then you might know-

now please, go and toss the old BR lamps and put the SSL in already

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Measurementblues
Measurementblues
7/16/2013 5:17:25 PM
User Rank
LED
Education is still needed
"LEDs have improved in efficiency -- and especially in price -- to the point that their economics are compelling without government intervention."

While I certainly won't argue that LEDs have improved and come down in price to the point where they are ready for mass consumption, you still see a lot of incandescents on store shelves. I see that especially in small hardware stores, but that could be the owners watn to sell off incandescent inventory and then replace with LED. Also, ther are still some buls shapes and sizes that are not available in LED. Well, maybe they are, but there's the price thing.

I have four of BR30 LEDs waiting for the incandescents to die. Four others are already in use. I'm not ready to toss the incendescents as long as they still work. I also have a few 60W eqivalents waiting for incandescents to die.

My CFL phase is over. I have some in use and no reason to change them out.

I started taking an interest in lighting two years ago during a house renovation. But, how many people will just want what they already have and keep buying incandescents? They need to understand more about SSL to make the switch.

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kdawson
kdawson
7/16/2013 10:19:56 AM
User Rank
Editor
Re: congress being congress
tempest in a teabag

OK, score one for Dennis.

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Dennis McCarthy
Dennis McCarthy
7/16/2013 8:25:24 AM
User Rank
Blogger
congress being congress
If you were driving a convertable - top open the elements and you drove past a cesspool, a trio of rendering plants, then a mega tire fire - then the building where congress convenes - you might notice an odor in the air-

going from  unpleasant to malodorous to slightly toxic till you get to drive past our congress. At that point the vile stench would be over whelming - thats when you can tell the house is in session- your best driving advice : hold your nose drive past it.

Somethings never change- but this attempt at an end around is a great example of stupidity walkin hand in hand with jingoism . The results don't affect us the consumer because the die has been cast, There were few entities who were going to be affected by this demise of incandescents' drama anyway.{ Relative to fines for mfg}  Their phase out happened because of corporate decisions, typicaaly made overseas years ago, Ultimately it barely earns more than a raised eyebrow. Oh thats just congressional republicans playing to their base.

The particular group was born petulant and will remain that way till they get old and die off- the time frame for this occurence is about the same time frame as will be seen for an 80% conversion to SSL here in the states - both are highly likely in the next 5 years - ... so it's on to the next big conflict this one's just a minor tempest in a teabag-

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